Post by Lagi on Aug 11, 2022 8:01:05 GMT
play a game with 6 units per side. That create a better experience than 100x units. 10mm scale is great! I personally like it a lot. Shame my minis are not painted in some colors (yet) ;-).
my 7 conclusion from above post are still valid. This is type of game I enjoy.
Dragon Ogre has Fear, that force enemy to pass morale to charge him. This Fear works great and thematic, you can feel that enemies actually are afraid of the centaur. Also as commander i avoid charging DragonOgre to not waste my activation, or i decide to activate other units. This create like a shield around Dragon Ogre, who roam freely and pick up targets. I think his stats are too powerful, maybe i remove him 1 defense or 1 tough (or maybe its just point balance).
I am happy with more front charges, and hitting on 1's if unit fight multiple time, this make gang ups valid, and promote good tactics (i think, because i play with myself). Also the fleeing rules are very nice. Once i even want to flee my Raptor Knights to save them, but then I realize that the Chaos Warriors would be free to charge my other units which would lose DarkElfes the battle.
Cavalry with 10 wounds feels better (5 horse+5 riders), and stay longer in game so it stop being so fragile.
I also make new unit cards for CHaos warriors and Dark Elfes, that are bigger, and have bigger graphic to card ratio.
Im on the fence with current First Strike [if you kill enemy he doesnt fight back]. It works and is significant, however it doesnt feels right. Spears f.ex should have impact even on fresh fight, and rather their main application shouldnt be used to finish dying units.
Post by Lagi on Aug 14, 2022 16:26:29 GMT
I play today a great battle between Dark Elves and Chaos Warriors, that I enjoy and which elevate my thoughts about many aspects of rules.
I have some painted minis and make piece of forest terrain, to enhance the valor of the game.
I made cards for each units and spells. however, still unbalanced allow me to go through stats smoothly, mark unit that dont attack, and manage spells. Also the new layout is more pleasant.
I place 3 objective tokens, but frankly they dont affect the tactics during game. However it allow to easily determine the winner at the end, by just checking who is holding the most points (doesnt have to count points, and losing player have chances till the end for victory).
To avoid decision paralyse, i shuffle each army deck, and activate top unit from each deck of cards. This make Commander skill to activate another unit much more powerful, because i was able to activate wizard or charging unit in critical moment.
the battle was a monster-hammer where big creatures dominate the battlefield. Hydra charge straight forward and destroy 3 units in 1 st round, plus excellent new Fear rule prevent 2 other units to bind with her in combat. Chaos Lord on Dragon just kill everything, being absolute anvil with 5- defense and Ward Save (called Etheral) 2-, not to mention 9 wounds, which take 5 round to reduce to 0.
I really like how the magic works. All spells just work. No dice rolling. Just point at enemy and he eats 2 hits.
all spells can be dispel, but its usually not worth to do that (better to cast own spell). Anyway dispel is just a single dice roll 3-. I love how simple it is.
Enchants were marked by token, and thats it. Enemy has now harder time to hit till end of the game (or dispel that will not happen). NO DICE ROLLING, JUST EFFECTS. this is neatly balanced by the need to cast other spells, before you can cast again the damaging ones.
i need to specify that flying units need LOS to target
forest - need to clarify that it limit move and charge (in/out/through forest) to 6" for all units. And grant -1 to be shoot. And should break LOS after 6" (? seems too much 3" rather, its strange to see shooting through the forest)
specify 2nd line of retreat, that is 6" behind the deploy line. Quite often Fleeing units just stay in place.
Remove First Strike(Last Strike) this rules dont enhance the experience of battle. Its only annoying to kill opponents units and don't receive strike back, feel wrong. And most of the time first strike don't occur anyway. I think the phalanx rule is better to give some flavour to Spears.
Phalanx - if charged, enemy roll lower of (enemy Tough OR this unit Attack) amount of dice. Each 1 is a wound for assailant.
Great Weapon or Polearm is the same. let it be +AP(1). AP2 for core units is too much, i render even heavy armoured units with Def 3 to become as fragile as naked sorcerers.
current amount of dice that is roll is too big.
there are unit that roll 17 dice when charge.
Furious rule is just worse impact, that additionally add more works with dice rolling. It doesnt feel right, flavour-wise too.
Furious(X) - add X auto-hit, when units is engage in combat (post the charge round).
Paired Weapon - add Furious. (same like Lance add Impacts)
Now I would have rules for charging unit (impact), for charged unit (phalanx) and for engage in prolonged combat (furious).
Blast and Deadly rules are underutilized.
This rules should be used for monsters. Instead of rolling 8 dice. 3 Attacks with Blast 3. Instead of inflating AP. Deadly(2) for dragons and hydra.
With successful dispel player could trash one spell. To allow sooner cycle back all spells.
Fleeing - there need to be 2nd retreat line 6" behind the deploy line. After failed Morale, player need to retreat back to nearest place in Retreat Line.
Dispel is rarely worth an action, so Spell Breaker special rule, is not worth to mention as global one ( same like Engineer, or Slayer)
Hevoc Warriors have a spell Horrify - that reduce shooting by 1 for one shoot. I used it as whole game dis-enchant, but its still rubbish. Even if Dark Elves army has quite amount of shooting units, its just not affecting the battle.
I change it to. When activated unit need to pass Morale check, or do nothing.
Post by Lagi on Aug 19, 2022 19:30:44 GMT
i test special rules, and was very generous with inserting auto-hits anywhere i can
Furious become Rage (shorter, better fit into card) - X auto hits in prolonged melee combat (after charge round). Works very well, opponent dont want to stay in combat and want to flee. This skill "kick in" in the next turn, so it seems very strong (slaughter sister has Rage 7 = 5 innate +2 from paired weapons), however in practice opponent may opt to retreat just after 1st round.
paired weapon provide 2 Rage.
Need to play test it in a full battle. But looks promising. It nicely reduces the number of dice rolled. Affect the tactical decision (should i stay in combat against this savage?). And feels very good fluff wise, your dudes with akimbo hand weapons really take it out on someone, after the initial "civilized and organized" charge round.
Phalanx - i test OPR version. Its ok, but its another 10 dice to roll. instead Phalanx is 5 auto hits (instead 5 normal attacks).
Works very well. Charged Spearman have significant upper hand in defence with 5 auto hits. However, limit to front, create nice opening in positioning. Also such rule is lovely dead simple, compare to more complex OPR.
Poison - i am not sure what to do with this one. My poison reroll defense, for each 1 score on hit.
this is very weak. Weak enough to give it to pack of goblins with poisoned knifes. But way too weak to be a Manticore attack.
I check "each '1' is auto wound" - now this delivers a punch, and fit well for Manticore f.ex.. But its way too strong to give it to some core troops. 10 dice = 2 auto wounds + whatever you hit and bypass armor - about 5 wounds.
hmm... usually some monsters have poison across the armies, so maybe I will go with "strong Poison". But if some core units gain access to it, they will have ArmyBook special rule - "Weak Poison" - that only reroll defense.
EDIT: I will go with Poison - each 1 to hit, auto wound.
Poison is a ruled used for leathal toxins, inflict by big units. If a bunch of goblins lubricates with poo their pointy sticks, the impact is negligible - or you can think its what allow them to have quality 2-, instead 1-.
Toxic - niche rule that i create for the Skaven Catapult. Remove this rule. No need to bother everyone, for army only rule.
I will rename the Ethereal to Ward. Its a Ward Save. Ethereal is confusing.
I remember that on my last battle, heroes on monster feel odd with losing the HERO rule. So i guess LONER is a better name to use.
I am also thinking about droping the Hindered Charge penalty, it only discourages from active play. Create field for "game lawyers" to abuse.
Speaking of, I wonder how it would affect game if Cover would increase defense against shooting attacks?
- being in cover would help against spells
- passive player will watch to have a bonus, instead active player forgetting to apply penalty to roll.
- against artillery it would be less useful - is it more or less "realistic" im not getting into.
Post by Lagi on Aug 20, 2022 11:42:41 GMT
i realize how silly it is to make melee attacks for a hero mounted on a monster. I am looking for a niche in rules to represent the effect of parry with a shield, or how 2m pointy stick is absolutely different from 1m pointy stick, but I cant spot the elephant in the room.
That is true. Rider is controlling the monster, provide presence on the battlefield to inspire the troop, or can cast spells. Trying to use a sword from the back of the dragon is like trying to bite an opponent during a boxing session.
So why would armed with melee weapon hero mount a dragon?
To use it when his mount is killed. Like Witch King when his Fellbeast was killed by Eowyn.
So after killing a dragon, hero is put in the same place on foot.
Phalanx rule as 5 auto hit from front works excellent! Even worst spearman deal at least 5 hits. If Phalanx unit is charged multiple times, it still delivers significant amount of hits. Its used well to just move Phalnx forward to be charged by enemy. Works "realistic" I will say.
Rage - auto hits in prolonged combat are good. I now forced units to fight in prolonged combat (they cannot activate unit, and flee immediately). Unit can only retreat during Morale check after damage is exchanged (player can order unit to flee, even if he won the combat).
It creates great tactical decision, with Rage unit involved. Should I retreat after 1st round of combat? It is also a bit more problematic to benefit from Rage auto hits, because the enemy keeps retreating.
Post by Lagi on Aug 20, 2022 17:04:36 GMT
some cards after 1st review. Didnt play with them yet.
Post by Lagi on Aug 27, 2022 21:48:20 GMT
Inspired by AoF:Battle Masters I have played little game with no hit rolls.
I give each unit predetermine amount of autohits, and play small 5 units per side, game like that.
This was awesome. Amount of work decrease by half! Its hard to think about better improve of game performance. As a standard in hammer-esque games you roll 10 dice four times per each clash, each time checking and modifying results, then you make Morale, mark wounds.
By integrating hits with wound, the game is mindblowing faster. I move my plastic, roll dice once per unit, mark wounds. The contemplation before each roll start making sense, because you remember to include more little rules. And every single dice roll is Gold, it make impact. Its not a boring procedure, you can feel that this one dice is life and death.
I was afraid before, that without hit roll I would lose depth of the mechanic. Yes thats true. But hit rolls are area that is not explored even by the industry giants (9age, gameworkshop, KingsofWar). You just rolls dice determine how many to roll for wounds, where all the fun with armor, penetration etc. is happening. Yes, this close an area for variety of magic swords to equip, but hero customization only happen in Warhammer, and even there its just 2x blades by codex. I think I will be able to figure out something even for single roll mechanic.
This is not compatible with current rules, there are penalties to hit for cover, charge, hitting heroes, fighting multiple times or from flank. But it all doesnt matter, it could be reflected other way.
Quality will lose meaning, becoming in practice Morale check. But do i even need Quality? what if default check is [3-], and you have 2x skills: Coward [2-], Courage[4-],... plus some bonus from hero (reroll or +1).
in the picture you see loads of wound markers. I like in Battle Master that there are 3x models per unit, which help with keeping record of damage by just removing 1 model. But on the other hand, it imposes artificial standards (3 attacks, 3 toughness...) which reduce unit variety. A good thing with 3models unit, is option to play with formation! line, column, or reverse triangle. But formations increases the complexity of the game, leaving lots of grey area for abuse.
Post by Lagi on Aug 29, 2022 12:46:20 GMT
I have play full battle with one roll for wounds. Brilliant! Much faster game. Less rolls, and the rolls are done with fewer dice.
There is a bit too much wound marker on the table. Except it, I love it.
For each unit i roll less dice. 5 instead of 10 for core units.
Each unit has Defense, which is target for dice to wound. Because active player is rolling, it only make sense to roll high. High defense is better is still logical, so roll high to overcome enemy defense. Circle is done. 3+,4+ notation has return.
Because of combat rolls. I adjust all other to roll high is better (Morale, Dispels, Ward Save).
There are penalties to hit (Hindered Charge, Cover for shooting, Forest, attacking hero, some weapon rules), all that increase target Defense by 1. Many times (heroes) i just included 1 more Defense in Hero profiles. This works better that tinkering with Attack numbers.
If unit fight multiple times (is charge again in the same round), he counter attack by only hitting on 6 (target Defense is max 6), and without any special rules.
This works very well.
You send weak unit to break spears, and then next unit hit with full impact.
When berserkers with Rage get exhausted, then you charge then with your glass cannon.
This rule promote multi attack infantry, over monsters with few dice.
Friendly Fire still works the same. Each roll 1 wound your own troops. Target has +1 Defense.
All units test morale on 4+.
If I need exception i introduce (Timid 5+, and Valiant 3+).
I merge Inspiring and Command into Leadership(X) - it grant both Morale reroll (that were missing before), and extra activations. This make fighting(commanding) heroes, different to the caster.
I treat heroes raiding monster separate. You first kill beast, then you place hero on monster place. I love it. It feels great, very cinematic (yes, like WitchKing in LotR, he should slay that blond bimbo).
No dice rolling spells works good as before. in this game I cast Horrify on Hydra, and she has to pass Morale each time when activated. :-D
All the hammer flavour is still there. You feel that the guys doing attack, there is armor penetration, Multiple hits.
I charged with Manticore chaos maruder in 1st round. Not the greatest tactical decision, but i was testing rules. Marauders have the most lucky day in their live, and they slay the weird hybrid in one round of combat.
1st I was like "this is the biggest bullshit in the history of little plastic toys". But then it grow on me. I start imaging that Manticore has very bad landing, and Marauders just jump on her, using opportningy to kill her on spot. Then the Tyrant step out of the corpse and enter the fray. COOL.
and here is how new unit cards look like:
you can see less dice to roll, for core units.
phalanx need more dice, 3 i think
you can see that heroes has more defense up to 6+ (is wounded on 3+, to take into account Small size from Loner)
Manticore and Dragon has less Tough, because you place hero on foot after (maybe it need new rule?)
I have forgot to give Valiant (morale 3+) to units, but heroes reroll morale from Leadership and this works well as balancing.
Ward save should be Ward(6+).
Post by Lagi on Sept 3, 2022 17:04:16 GMT
Played today with inches, instead cm. There is much more space, and is harder to block unit movement, also units can reach all my battle table, f.ex. knight return to the battle after fleeing.
I test survivor rule. Heroes on dragons are deployed on foot after mount is killed. Dont applie to horses, only to big monsters. Very good, cinematic rule, that nicely trim the power of big monsters. During my game, both chaos dragon and dark elves manticore die. In later rounds hero on foot, can still affect the outcome of battle.
I play with shooting reaction to charge. A good rule. Dont increase the burden of procedures during game. But is very sensible. Shooting units are much more usable. Because it guarantees they would shoot at least once.
I was annoyed with lurking to charge the opponents knights. Because if you hit first you A) benefit massively from Impacts B) enemy riders are screw up, because they Impacts are wasted. So i introduce Counter charge rule for Fast units. Didnt play with it yet.
there is not much excitement from 4th round. Usually, units are far away from each other. Battle is decided in 3rd round. Maybe it make more sens on bigger area, more littered with obstacles, hard terrain and with objectives.
I am still in love with how enchants spell works. Just place token on target. TADA. its faster that dealing damage
. Some spells need rewording for 1 roll mechanic.
Fear (check morale if charging Fear unit) is a great rule. Very cinematic, risky, it affect movement of units on table - I love it. Much more than any +D3 to CR.
Rage (+attack in prolonged melee combat) is also great. Often, opponent volunteer to flee, to not receive extra attacks in next round. Its something to consider during game, and feels very nice.
I encounter problem with penalties increasing target defense above 6 (f.ex. Hydra Def 6+, is Hindered Charge +1 Defense). How to treat AP? I decided to cap Defense at 6. No one likes Anvils, its just not fun when AP attacks become useless.
One Leadership rule is very nice, clear with merging 3x effects - ally morale reroll, activating more units at once, and +1 Morale for himself.
I play inside forest a bit. I think the rules are solid. they are easy, and the effect repeat itself, so its easy to memorize. They also feels sensible in game. Dont restrict movement too much, and provide protection, but its still viable to charge the hidden units.
im tired with DarkElves and Chaos, and I didnt even paint all minis :-D. Chaos annoy me with lack of shooting attacks, i cannot test rules to full extent, maybe i add marauders throwing weapons.
Post by Lagi on Sept 8, 2022 21:02:46 GMT
quick carpet skirmish because i want to see my painted dudes in action.
Painted minis is another quality of gaming, its going like that:
unpainted minis "what an ugly plastic" < cardboards"look how efficient and cheap I am" <<<<< painted minis "Death to the followers of the false god!" immersion is total.
I have a felling that units have too much Tough. 10 means i need to use 2 dice, and move it all around after units.
I try in this game to play with double model (1 unit is 2x stands with models), and when i inflict 5x wounds, i remove 1 model. But it's confusing. Its better to just count wounds with dice. And its kind of lame waste of models. Its better to have it as a separate unit.
I think the fleeing is good. Because the units are abandoning position, allowing enemy to capture objectives, but quitters are not out of the game. You can use them again in last turns. Its beneficial to screen your front unit with some second line. Mostly because if front run away, 2nd line can charge a weakened enemy (who will only hit on '6').
I do counter-charge cold-one dark elves vs chaos knights, WHOA mutuals impacts feels great!! And this reposition of target - just sweet :-)
Rage is very good. Slaughter sister with 9 attacks make Chaos warrior's voluntary retreat, otherwise they would eat again in next turn 9 dice.
I make the following arrangement for equipment:
- sword&shield +1CR
- spear +3 phalanx
- dual wield +3 rage
- great weapon(halberd) Ap(1)
+shield grants better Defense against shooting (for low defense troops).
Unfortunately Marauders didnt have an opportunity to fight this game, so I still didnt test +1CR in game. But it sounds sensible.
Post by Lagi on Sept 10, 2022 16:11:59 GMT
Tough of units.
Standard block of infantry had 7 Tough. Cavalry had 6. That is quite ok values. 1 dice can cover all wounds.
standard infantry roll 4 dice.
Phalanx add 3 dice
impact add 4 dice (2x lance, 2x horses)
7 dice feels good compare to 4 roll in normal case.
Rage - this name doesn't feel to be most fitting. Because you can have discipled warriors that will just benefit from more dice in following rounds of combat.
anyway rage add 3 dice in prolonged melee combat
sword & shield - lets call it Parry
Parry with +1 CR is too weak. I test it with +2 CR, and its more like it.
However sometimes return funny result. Like you flank charge infantry block (+1 CR), but swordsman have (+1CR from mass, +2 CR from parry), and you need to deal 2 wounds more to win the fight.
+2 CR parry allow me to add just +1CR for marauders who are deployed with mixed equipment. And this 1 CR make an impact.
dual wield +3 Rage; for Marauders it allow me to give them only 2 Rage.
Chaos warriors roll 5 dice, instead normal 4. And thats good too. 4 dice is standard combat unit/ 3 dice are poor melee / 5 dice is elite melee.
ColdOne have 3+2 normal attack +2 impacts. while normal shock cavalry have 3+4 impacts. This make cold one feels different.
I need to redo all units card, to make a full battle with this rules.
Post by Lagi on Sept 11, 2022 16:32:35 GMT
Another very important battle for bunch of shrubs.
i play with cm, and i think im going to stick with inches. There is more distance cover, battle is more exciting, more table is used. Leadership range for 6" are functional, while with 6cm i cannot reroll any morale (or have commander behind every regiment). Also 3cm of regroup is just lenght of the base really.
Rage (extra attack in prolonged combat) occur too rare. If unit already attacked in round, there is no more Rage, but as well if its charged.
I will change the wording "any time when activated already in melee combat" - this way Rage would find a little more use in mutli-combatant clashes. So when someone charge unit already in melee, the involved unit could utilize Rage against new participant.
Parry for sword and shield, +2CR is too much (basically unit never lost melee). +1CR is ok.
Chaos warriors were flank charged by lone Tyrant, and won the combat even if they cannot even roll dice anymore
6 defence is a lot. Especially now when i reduce number of attack rolls to 4.
It feels thematic for attacking big monsters, but not a single heroes. I think i will give Loners +Ward save, instead +1 Defense.
Actually, maybe the Ward save could be utilized for Hindered Charges and Cover as well? One downside would be monsters that are already hard to bite, and with extra Ward save on top, they would be only more invulnerable.
Chaos warriors 5def, ward save 6+, 5 attacks ap1, and CR+2. Are too good. I know they are the best, but it feels off. They can slaughter 2x combat regiments of spearman head on and shrug off flank charges in the same round.
I make Medic rule. that need to be change : "if unit dont attack this round, recover 1 hp", because not moving your units its just a waste.
7 - for infantry
6 - for cavalry
5 - for 3x units squad of trolls or Dragon.
4 - big beast like Manticore or chariots
3 - beast like Dragon ogre, or hero on bull (juggernaut)
2- fighting hero, non-melee construct (bolt thrower)
the low range of tough, feels too low. but 7 and 6 for infantry and cavalry is fine.
spears 4+3 dice from phalanx is ok
sword and shield +1CR is ok (its always +2 CR, because its block of infantry). +2CR is too much, and give silly result during flanks.
dual wield 4+3 Rage is ok. I can give 2 Rage in some occasion which is nice. Rage trigger seldom, and it needs some buff to occur more often.
... hmm... maybe Rage could be still used, when the unit if Flanked or already attack this turn? is it too many exceptions to the rules?
cavalry 3 base attacks +4 impacts ok
Bolt thrower with ap3, deadly d3 is OP with lowest Tough troops. I think i reduce his ap. Or maybe grant this Ward Save from Covers.
Spells selection feel restricted now with requirement to have Grand Wizard upgrade. Not sure if its worth to complicate things with casting spells.
if unit fight again or is flanked, all the rules are the same, but opponent receive Ward Save +2 (5+).
I test opponent get Defense 6, but AP lower this value to 4, and monster dont benefit at all from flanking troops. Ward Save 5+ is surprisingly good, don't make exceptions to special rules, one roll more is rare, it create nice new rule with hindered charge and cover
Hindered Charge and Cover, give target Ward save 5+
same rule as with retaliation above. Its easy to implement, all roll stay the same. If i forgot to apply the modifier. its ok because even after wound are allocated i can roll for Ward Save. Cover from artillery works sensible.
instead +1Defense they get Ward Save +1.
... this need full battle test, becaue it make heroes fragile. especially when i lower their toughness from 3 to 2.
i give Chaos troll and marauders throwing attacks, that is fine. Marauder become very versatile tool. Jack-of-all-trades.
I take from Chaos Warriors AP1 and WardSave6+. Now they are still very good, but feels more fair.
Post by Lagi on Sept 17, 2022 14:05:51 GMT
i painted all my plastic. play with inches.
multiple fights, hindered charge and cover grant ward save 5+ for each wound. Loners have +1.
Thats a very good rules. 2nd save roll allow to include effects, that do not modify standard combat procedure. It works very efficient.
I will change name from Ward save into Evasion (thats what Warfleet use), this is good name, it means that the attack didnt connect.
I will call penalty for multiple fights Fatique (if unit fight more than once in round), that gives +2 Evasion for each wounds to the target.
Artillery units by default will grant target +1 Evasion. Because now they are too good.
Rage skill nicely trigger now, when its not canceled during Fatique. Same for more phalanx hits. Shooting reaction is good. Counter-charge... not sure if it doesnt have too much requirements (remove "not activated yet", can counter charge if only didnt attack yet).
I need to change LoS for hindered charge and shooting. instead cone from center it should be from any points of unit base to any points of target base. Easier to check, and it make more use of terrain and unit posistions.
+2 from Hindered charge // Cover shooting
+1 for Loners (hero on foot or on small mount (horse))
+1 innate unit effect (like chaos armors on heros)
+2 Fatique (if fight more than once in turn)
+1 Inaccurace of Artillery
monster deal a bit too much damage to what they can withstand. not sure if i should trim their attacks, or increase Toughness.
Harpies could have Evasion 1, becasuse they are nimble flying unit, fragile but should be able to dodge in combat.
small beast-units like Dragon Ogre or Deamon spawn have a bit small Tough (3). but maybe its because i use tham like an idiot to front charge.
Deadly(2) is a lot now. Not sure if Deadly (d2) is not too much dice rolling.
chaos dragon with 2Att, deadly(2), ap(2) is bit too powerful. its 4 wounds each attack.
sword and shield being CR(2) is good rule IMO. useful.
i will give Chaos Hounds evasion 1.
manticore is very unreliable with 1 att, deadly(2), poison. Poison never lands in battle for me, and if would it would inflict 3+ wounds ( lets assume total 5)
exalted hero on juggernaut is total OP
6 def - he is wounded very rarely.
ward(1)+loner - means 5+ evasion min. If its cover shot its 3+.
he charge with potential 6 wounds. that he often inflict.
i dont like core/epic spell division. It seems unnecessary complication, plus it limits available spell, that are very nice balanced by one-use-each-till-recycle rule.
However i think there should be division to normal and better wizards. Not sure what Grand Wizards advantage should be. His spell cant be dispel?
Post by Lagi on Sept 19, 2022 9:33:56 GMT
I use chaos dwarf as rifle regiments to test rules, also d. elves were using stock crossbows.
xbow ap1, -1 attack if shoot after move
rifle ap2, cannot shoot and move
Ap1. and -1 dice after move. is ok.
AP(2) is very deadly with 4 shoots. the range is good too. I have waste 1 turn to only move with Rifle dwarves i think, so no move&fire is not a big drawback (for open battlefield at least). In current ruleset AP(2) for rifles is too good, unless i reduce standard attack from 4 to 3 dice for them.
i use 2x wizard per site. To test the magic rules.
removal of core/epic spell seems like a good step. More spells in circulation, but also double the choice, which lead to decision paralyse. More damaging spells too, which is boring. Before i was thinking if its worth to cast damage spell now, or debuff will do.
i remove successful dispel take activation. Now im not sure. On this setup the wizards cover whole battleground (just 2 was enough). And everytime someone cast, there were dispel roll. Which is something i dont like. "its just 1 dice" yeah yeah... one dice that you need roll all the time start being 4 round * 2 wizards = 8 dice rolls.
at the end Im not convinced that above changes are good for gameplay. I will need to test them again in full battle.
edit: my late night fought about magic system
when you have a risk of losing turn for successful dispelling spell, it creates mind games
- is this spell powerful enough so its worth to lose my own casting turn? this make weak spell, more present on the battle, because its not worth to counter them
- i can have access to all spells. But i will not cast only the most powerful, because i want to keep them for proper occasion, and 2nd. enemy might want to not try to dispell weaker spell. And its better to do weak debuff than achieve nothing in round
- when opponent refrain sometime from dispel. There is less labor with dice rolling. other wise opponent roll the dice always, its not a decision, its work - a procedure to do always - protocol
- all this mental struggle create nice feeling of magic battle between wizards, without any dice rolling
- position of your wizards starts being interesting. Do i want to try place my wizard far away from other wizards? or do i want to follow them to be able to block his effort. Or just create pressure on my opponent to not try to cast powerful spells.
- there is gambit with placing 2x wizards close to each other, to be able to do double dispell roll for one spell (only 1 wizard will lose activation). Or to cast spell twice into some specific unit (own to boost it twice before attack or enemy to destroy him faster).
Post by Lagi on Sept 25, 2022 17:21:16 GMT
I play with +2 wizard for each side, to test magic rules
access to all 6 spells is better. Its a bit too many options with 6 spells. I play without dispels at all, to have the feelings of spells power. Even without dispel, magic is weak. Its nice bonus or tactical advantage here or there, but nothing major - aka balanced. I'm even thinking about removing the dispel option completely to have a faster game.
or maybe each Grand Wizard will grant 1 dispel try (4+) per round? This would make this upgrade important. And reduce dice rolling.
Dark Chain spell (reduce charge range to 6") is rubbish. It make some use in 1st round, when units are far away from each other, but after that 6" is enough to attack something.
Golden Rule of Battalion would be:
"Take all the dice for attack, and roll them immediately. I mean NOW. Dont wait a split second. JUST throw them.
33% of time its 1 or 6 so you dont need to know enemy stats.
66% of time you know from a glance that unit is weak or strong and 5 or 2 result is obvious as well"
Morale reroll from Leadership. Instead rollind d6 twice, roll 2d6. Its mind blowing faster.
Counter charge with Fast units, works even better now (any Fast, non Fatique unit can counter charge each other, even after move).
Cover line checks are much better. I just look for any line break between any point of base. Trigger/Hindered charge trigger much often, which is good.
+2 Evasion (5+ save) from cover/hindered charge/Fatique attack/Flank attack is good. I was afraid it would be too much, but it makes this penalty significant. Tactical positioning is more important.
+1 evasion for artillery targets, and loners (heroes) works good too.
chariots need to be more different to cavalry. they feel the same, despite being a completely different build models.
hydra kill 2 chaos warriors, and exalted on juggernaut. Something is off here. 6 defense is a lot more than 5. And AP1 is a big game changer, now that Chaos warriors dont have it. Hydra having ap2 and deadly2 is too good for this scale and single roll combat.
hydra head rule (+1attack for regen wound) is pure nonsense. Regeneration fine, but lets skip the fairytales.
i was looking at the battle field picture. This red dice as wound markers are too common. I really like warmaster approach of 3x stands per unit, and 1/2 temporary wound markers.
Maybe i will use 3 stands, and each would be 3 hp? I do it before, and i dont really like it. but maybe if that was part of the rules, it would be easier to digest?
i was also thinking about spell system.
grand master allowing only to make dispels sounds not attractive. Grand Master invoke in mind pictures of powerful magic. Not defence against it.
in wargames chariot is just cavalry units with more impacts.
I would like it to work differently rulewise. Same like sword and shield work different to spears, or to dual wield, great weapons.
so cavalry charge and stick into the target. And the impacts quite nicely depict that.
however chariot should be in constant motion. Maybe he could do 1st round of combat, and then immediately be place on other side of the target? this would allow to do multiple impacts. special rule going through.
i dont have pictures so i dont make new post. I buy some more plastic. some maybe tomorrow i will check new units. But i dont have stats prepare
spells are weak, and the whole fuss with dispelling is extra dice work and complication that reduce the fun - spell effects.
dispel is a special rule (maybe some items, or banner grant some?)
grand wizard can cast 2x spell per round. Its strong. But he still need to follow spell cycle, so power creep is in check.
Counter charge can be done vs hindered charge as well. Not sure why i complicate this in first place.
i change the wording about marking activation with cards. You can mark it with tokens. Its just my personal preference that i shouldnt impose on others.
i add golden rule about rolling dice ASAP. This dice rolling habit improves performance of the game drastically.
im not sure if its not worth to allow flanked unit, to face the opponent in prolonged combat, IF opponent is activated before. I mean, opponent already has his benefit from flank charge... further advantage feels very competitive.
i clarify that halberds are great weapons too
i cannot invent a good special rule, that will simply differentiate the chariots from cavalry. I think chariots need to do normal Impacts. Need to test few variants i think.
i was thinking about Blast being rule for multiple creatures, and deadly being rule versus one single monster. But i come to conclusion this niche flavour is not worth complication. Blast can be just more attacks, that high defense monsters would save. Also the former idea, would force me to add special rule just to tag monsters.
with a single save roll, the results are much more swingy than in the standard "hit then save" mechanic. This can be compensated by more dice. However i dont like rolling 10 dice. So its either mass battle when silly extermination of 1 unit doesn't matter, or you can finish your little encounter faster, and start again.
Just want to thank you for checking my thread. I notice the view activity here. Sorry guys i dont make more updates to entertain you :-) . I need a long break to have a fresh perspective.
Post by Lagi on Nov 18, 2022 23:15:09 GMT
I played a game with another player! Woahoo!!
My neighbour want to play with the minis. He never play any wargames, and hardly a board games before.
Game last 2h total (from assembling the table to him closing the doors) - 6 rounds.
Why 6? Because my opponent want to know who win X-D
we use inches instead cm, for 10mm scale. Thats a right choice.
We didnt play with magic, and forest was impassable terrain. No objectives too.
First 2 rounds, didnt look much different to me playing with myself. But once my colleague grasp the rules, the things go smooth. I didnt except this game to be soo fun!! I know maybe im biased, because its my creation. But i didnt have so much fun in long time.
All this unit activation are super fast. Combat is just one roll!!! I am rolling for my units, and my opponents for his.
There was lots of nice details that my friend appreciated. Like running from combat. It was one of the first things he ask for "how do you escape from combat?". When he kills my manticore, he just laughs when i place my Dark Elf foot tyrant in the same place.
I make bunch of special rules, and they were all interesting. Like Fear, works great when you check if your troops are brave enough to charge dragon. Phalnax,rage,impacts, CR for shield and swords.
Definitely testing game with other person is the proper way to do it. I just didn't realize lots of things.
1. Units have not enough Tough. They're just dying too fast, after one combat round. There is no chance to use Rage skill. Anything that is not a regiment of units or a biggest monster is destroyed in 1 round. This affect very rare morale rolls, or Rage skill. There is lots of playing with multicombats, flanking that just dont happen because everyone die too fast.
2. Leadership range is too short. should be 12".
3. Fatigue, covers, hindered charges - increasing Evasion Save roll - this all works well, and is easy to grasp. However it feels unnatural, that you are harder to wound, if your opponent have penalties; target rather should be easier to finish. Not sure if I want to change it.
4. Monsters are imba. AP2 is very strong. And Hydra shouldn't have that. Same with Deadly, even 2 is a lot. Maybe its because of too low Tough across the units?
My bad there was 8 rounds.
I just didnt take pictures.
round 7 manticore charge, and is killed in that round.
round 8 dragon finish dark elf tyrant on foot.
in my game club the board game finish earlier so i spend some time looking how other people play hammer:
1. in general the game look like they ROLLING and ROLLING DICE, and not moving units - thats right here is already boring, and its not fun.
2. they spend way too much time DISCUSSING RULES or counting rules that apply. Who have what bonuses, and what special rules.
3. one player do all the shooting, he select one unit inflict damage, then selsect another,, and another..... and then next player is doing the same. there are phases. which even further increase the STATIC feeling of the game.
4. on one table there were tons of markers, of each modifiers for each unit... which doesnt look nice.
i guess its cool to create your own army with all that depth and detail, but its painful to play it (for me).
i would like battle to be closer to playing with toy solider "i move here paf paf you die" "and i move now there and BUM all this run away and scatter around"